Legislature(2015 - 2016)CAPITOL 120
04/08/2015 01:00 PM House JUDICIARY
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB123 | |
| HJR14|| HCR4 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HJR 14 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HCR 4 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | SB 30 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 123 | TELECONFERENCED | |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE
April 8, 2015
2:07 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux, Chair
Representative Wes Keller, Vice Chair
Representative Bob Lynn
Representative Charisse Millett
Representative Matt Claman
Representative Neal Foster
Representative Max Gruenberg
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Kurt Olson (alternate)
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 123
"An Act establishing the Marijuana Control Board; relating to
the powers and duties of the Marijuana Control Board; relating
to the appointment, removal, and duties of the director of the
Marijuana Control Board; relating to the Alcoholic Beverage
Control Board; and providing for an effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 123(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 14
Making application to the United States Congress to call a
convention of the states to propose a countermand amendment to
the Constitution of the United States as provided under art. V,
Constitution of the United States; and urging the legislatures
of the other 49 states to make the same application.
- MOVED CSHJR 14(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 4
Relating to the duties of delegates selected by the legislature
to attend a convention of the states called under art. V,
Constitution of the United States, to consider a countermand
amendment to the Constitution of the United States; establishing
as a joint committee of the legislature the Delegate Credential
Committee and relating to the duties of the committee; providing
for an oath for delegates and alternates to a countermand
amendment convention; providing for a chair and assistant chair
of the state's countermand amendment delegation; providing for
the duties of the chair and assistant chair; providing
instructions for the selection of a convention president; and
providing specific language for the countermand amendment on
which the state's convention delegates are authorized by the
legislature to vote to approve.
- MOVED CSHCR 4(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 123
SHORT TITLE: ESTABLISH MARIJUANA CONTROL BOARD
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
02/23/15 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/23/15 (H) L&C, JUD, FIN
03/04/15 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
03/04/15 (H) Heard & Held
03/04/15 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/11/15 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
03/11/15 (H) Heard & Held
03/11/15 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/16/15 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
03/16/15 (H) Heard & Held
03/16/15 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/20/15 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
03/20/15 (H) Heard & Held
03/20/15 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/23/15 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
03/23/15 (H) Scheduled but Not Heard
03/23/15 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
03/23/15 (H) Heard & Held
03/23/15 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/27/15 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
03/27/15 (H) Moved CSHB 123(L&C) Out of Committee
03/27/15 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/30/15 (H) L&C RPT CS(L&C) 1DP 3NR 3AM
03/30/15 (H) DP: OLSON
03/30/15 (H) NR: TILTON, HUGHES, KITO
03/30/15 (H) AM: LEDOUX, JOSEPHSON, COLVER
03/30/15 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
03/30/15 (H) Heard & Held
03/30/15 (H) MINUTE(JUD)
04/03/15 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
04/03/15 (H) -- MEETING CANCELED --
04/06/15 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
04/06/15 (H) Heard & Held
04/06/15 (H) MINUTE(JUD)
04/08/15 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
BILL: HJR 14
SHORT TITLE: CALL FOR US COUNTERMAND CONVENTION
SPONSOR(s): HUGHES
02/11/15 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/11/15 (H) STA, JUD
03/19/15 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
03/19/15 (H) Heard & Held
03/19/15 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/24/15 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
03/24/15 (H) Moved CSHJR 14(STA) Out of Committee
03/24/15 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/25/15 (H) STA RPT CS(STA) 3DP 4NR
03/25/15 (H) DP: VAZQUEZ, LYNN, KELLER
03/25/15 (H) NR: TALERICO, STUTES, GRUENBERG,
KREISS-TOMKINS
04/08/15 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
BILL: HCR 4
SHORT TITLE: US COUNTERMAND CONVENTION DELEGATES
SPONSOR(s): HUGHES
02/11/15 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/11/15 (H) STA, JUD, FIN
03/19/15 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
03/19/15 (H) Heard & Held
03/19/15 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/24/15 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
03/24/15 (H) Moved CSHCR 4(STA) Out of Committee
03/24/15 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/25/15 (H) STA RPT CS(STA) 3DP 4NR
03/25/15 (H) DP: VAZQUEZ, LYNN, KELLER
03/25/15 (H) NR: TALERICO, STUTES, GRUENBERG,
KREISS-TOMKINS
04/08/15 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
WITNESS REGISTER
MICAELA FOWLER, Legislative Liaison
Special Assistant to the Commissioner
Office of the Commissioner
Department of Commerce, Community, and Economic Development
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: During the hearing on CSHB 123, testified
regarding changes in the CS and answered questions.
CYNTHIA FRANKLIN, Director
Alcoholic Beverage Control Board (ABC Board)
Department of Commerce, Community, and Economic Development
(DCCED)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: During the hearing on CSHB 123, answered
questions regarding regulating marijuana like alcohol.
REPRESENTATIVE SHELLY HUGHES
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HJR 14, and HCR 4, in tandem as
the prime sponsor.
STEWART CRUGER, Staff
Representative Shelley Hughes
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: During the hearings on HJR 14, and HCR 4,
presented a sectional analysis.
CHARLES KACPROWICZ, Executive Director
Citizen Initiatives and Countermand Amendment
Spruce Pine, North Carolina
POSITION STATEMENT: During the hearings on HJR 14, and HCR 4,
offered testimony.
ACTION NARRATIVE
2:07:06 PM
CHAIR GABRIELLE LEDOUX called the House Judiciary Standing
Committee meeting to order at 2:07 p.m. Representatives Keller,
Lynn, Millett, Claman, and LeDoux were present at the call to
order. Representatives Foster and Gruenberg arrived as the
meeting was in process.
HB 123-ESTABLISH MARIJUANA CONTROL BOARD
2:08:01 PM
CHAIR LEDOUX announced that the first order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 123, "An Act establishing the Marijuana Control
Board; relating to the powers and duties of the Marijuana
Control Board; relating to the appointment, removal, and duties
of the director of the Marijuana Control Board; relating to the
Alcoholic Beverage Control Board; and providing for an effective
date."
2:08:30 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER moved to adopt CSHB 123, Version 29-
GH1110\P, Martin, 4/7/15, as the working document. There being
no objection Version P was before the committee.
2:09:02 PM
MICAELA FOWLER, Legislative Liaison, Special Assistant to the
Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner, Department of
Commerce, Community, and Economic Development, said there are
two changes in Version P responsive to concerns voiced during
the last hearing ...
2:09:22 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 2:09 to 2:10 p.m., due to
technical difficulties.
2:10:44 PM
MS. FOWLER referred to [Sec. 2, AS 17.38.080(b)(3)], page 2,
line 17, which read:
(3) one person currently residing in a rural
area;
MS. FOWLER advised that the word "currently" has been added to
the rural seat and it is now required that one person currently
residing in a rural area serve on the board. She referred to
[Sec. 2, AS 17.38.080(g)(6)], page 3, lines 19-21, which read:
(6) "rural area" means a community with a
population of 7,000 or less that is not connected by
road or rail to Anchorage or Fairbanks, or with a
population of 2,000 or less that is connected by road
or rail to Anchorage or Fairbanks.
MS. FOWLER advised that the definition of "rural area" has been
changed and it is closely related to a combination of other
definitions of "rural area" in existing statute. She referred
to [Sec. 3, AS 17.38.084(a)], page 4, lines 14-15, which read:
(a) The board shall control the cultivation, manufacture,
and sale of marijuana in the state. ...
MS. FOWLER explained it removes the word "possession" from
control of the board.
2:12:27 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG referred to an amendment Representative
Foster wanted.
CHAIR LEDOUX advised that she believes the CS incorporated
Representative Foster's concerns.
REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER stated that Chair LeDoux was correct.
2:13:42 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG requested a copy of AS 17, and a few
minutes to review.
2:13:57 PM
The committee took a brief at-ease.
2:14:24 PM
MS. FOWLER responded to Representative Gruenberg and referred to
[Version N, Sec. 2, AS 17.38.080(e)], page 2, lines 30-31, which
read:
(e) The rural member of the board shall reside or
have resided in a rural area for not fewer than 180
days within the five years preceding appointment.
MS. FOWLER pointed out that the section was removed when
"currently" was added to [Version P], Sec. 2, line 17.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG confirmed that is yet another change.
MS. FOWLER answered yes.
2:14:53 PM
CHAIR LEDOUX said the Ms. Fowler indicated that "currently" had
been put into the CS.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG offered that he "just wanted to be
sure."
2:15:33 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN moved to adopt Amendment 1, labeled 29-
GH1110\E.1, Martin, 4/2/15, which read [original punctuation
provided]:
Page 6, following line 8:
Insert a new bill section to read:
"* Sec. 4. AS 17.38.100 is amended by adding a new
subsection to read:
(i) A marijuana establishment may not be
registered under this chapter if a person who is an
owner, officer, agent, or employee of the marijuana
establishment has been convicted of
(1) a felony and less than five years
have elapsed since the person's unconditional
discharge from the conviction; or
(2) a misdemeanor involving a
controlled substance in the last three years."
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
CHAIR LEDOUX objected.
2:15:51 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN advised that Amendment 1 proposes that a
marijuana establishment may not be registered under this chapter
if a person is an owner, officer, agent or employee of a
marijuana establishment and has been convicted of a felony and
less than five years have elapsed since the person's
unconditional discharge from the conviction, or a misdemeanor
involving a controlled substance within the last three years.
He stated that felonies or misdemeanors involving a controlled
substance, which could be marijuana, has demonstrated a
predilection not to follow established law. He described it as
a state of mind, that the past is too often the predictor of the
future, and the committee must be cautious as it is breaking new
ground in every aspect of marijuana laws. He stated that the
committee must be extremely cautious in how it constructs the
laws and urged the committee's approval of the amendment.
2:17:25 PM
CHAIR LEDOUX asked Cynthia Franklin, Micaela Fowler, and/or
Harriet Milks to explain their view of the amendment and how
things are done with respect to the alcohol industry.
2:17:50 PM
CYNTHIA FRANKLIN, Director, Alcoholic Beverage Control Board
(ABC Board), Department of Commerce, Community, and Economic
Development (DCCED), responded that with regard to alcohol in
Title 4, there is 10 year look back period on felonies but no
outright prohibition on individuals with felony convictions
being licensed for purposes of operating or holding a liquor
license. She advised that in the event the person applying for
a license has been convicted of a felony within the past 10
years they must appear before the ABC Board to explain their
conviction, the board has the discretion to grant the license in
spite of the conviction or to deny the license on the basis of
the conviction. She noted that it is a bit more open than
proposed Amendment 1, but it is a different substance and
alcohol has not recently been in the Controlled Substances Act.
In fact, she explained, marijuana may remain in the Controlled
Substances Act depending upon the fate of bills in the
legislature. She stated that a clear prohibition will decrease
board time spent on this issue, but she imagines that
individuals who plan to apply for licenses might have more to
say about it in terms of their opinion.
2:19:24 PM
CHAIR LEDOUX asked whether there is anything with respect to
misdemeanors in the ABC Board.
MS. FRANKLIN responded no.
CHAIR LEDOUX questioned whether the look back provision with
respect to felonies is in the statute or in regulation.
MS. FRANKLIN answered that it is in regulation.
2:19:58 PM
CHAIR LEDOUX surmised that since this is offered in the alcohol
industry regulations, she would like marijuana regulated the
same as alcohol. She said she will not withdraw her objection.
2:20:44 PM
MS. FRANKLIN added that there is a prohibition similar to
proposed Amendment 1, in SB 62, but she could not recall whether
the bill contains a prohibition related to misdemeanor
convictions. She reiterated that the five year felony
prohibition is present in the current version of SB 62.
2:21:11 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN agreed that it should be under marijuana
regulations, and questioned whether the condition of CSHB 123
adequate to give the Marijuana Control Board regulatory
authority to create the same as the ABC Board has or should
there be a change to the bill if desiring that the Marijuana
Control Board has that authority.
MS. FRANKLIN responded that the language is adequate.
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN advised that he shares Chair LeDoux's
objection.
2:22:01 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER referred to time saved for the board by
having these parameters implies that the 10 year look back
period takes a considerable amount of time. He asked whether
Ms. Franklin had to make decisions that were controversial in
her look back experience.
MS. FRANKLIN responded that she has only been to three board
meetings, and there was an applicant with a felony conviction.
She advised that she wouldn't say it takes a significant amount
of time although it does involve the board going into executive
session because an individual's criminal history is private.
Typically, she offered, because the board discovers the criminal
convictions through the Alaska Safety Planning and Empowerment
Network (ASPEN) security clearance that the enforcement officers
have, and the authority the board has to look at an individual's
criminal history who applies for a license. She reiterated that
board goes into executive session at the board meeting for the
board to discuss that history with the applicant. She further
reiterated that it does not take a significant amount of time
and that it add a human element to the board process in the
particular case she observed. It allowed the board to consider
rehabilitation efforts the individual had made and it was a
controlled substance conviction and was a long time prior. She
advised the individual had circumstances she wanted to explain
to the board and the license she was applying for was a beer and
wine license at a "hamburger/wings joint," and the board was
able to consider the age of the conviction, type of license
applied for, and weigh the various determinations as opposed to
a bright line scheme where the simple fact of the conviction
would automatically preempt the person from holding such a
license.
2:24:25 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER related that five years and three years is
reasonable, wherein comparing five years to ten years is not
apples to apples. He remarked that proposed Amendment 1 is
good.
2:24:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG stated that when Chair LeDoux mentioned
some things that might be issues for the regulatory authority to
consider, he does not want the record to reflect that those
would be the only issues. He offered that other issues might
include whether a person would have a right to appear before the
board, and also whether this activity may have occurred in a
different jurisdiction with different laws. He offered a
scenario of a person with a little marijuana in a baggie in
their car glove compartment charged within the last three years
as to whether that person should be disqualified. He said he
agrees with taking it to the regulatory authority.
2:25:46 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN responded to Representative Gruenberg that
prior to this initiative a small baggie of marijuana would have
been illegal which showed a predilection to not obeying the law.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG answered that it depends upon the case.
2:26:26 PM
CHAIR LEDOUX referred to the alcohol context and questioned
whether the prohibition is applied to simple employees of the
bar or just someone with a license.
MS. FRANKLIN replied that it is the applicant for the license or
applicant for the transfer.
CHAIR LEDOUX surmised that it would not affect hiring an
employee with an Alcohol Education Card (TAM) for example.
MS. FRANKLIN answered, correct.
2:27:00 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN offered a further note in support of the
regulatory approach in that the legislature wants people who now
may be in the marijuana growing business to register and
participate. He stated he would rather have a person, with a
misdemeanor conviction for marijuana possession in the last
three years, licensed and identified rather than being in the
black market.
2:28:04 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN referred to Ms. Franklin testimony wherein
she stated the board would go into executive session because
convictions are private. He questioned whether the convictions
are really private in that anyone can go on the internet or
courthouse to locate convictions of anything.
MS. FRANKLIN answered that it depends on whether it is an Alaska
conviction and in Courtview then anyone can see it. In the
event it is a federal conviction or out-of-state conviction that
is located on ASPIN, it is not viewable by the public. The
board is governed by processes created in regulation in terms of
how to treat the criminal history during public meetings. She
explained that the process is that an applicant applies, the
ASPIN history is run, and if there is an item on the history
that would cause the applicant to fall under that regulation the
information is shared solely with the director, and then the
board in executive session versus being on the board's public
agenda.
2:29:35 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN opined that the state is entering an
entirely new ground and in the event there is an error it should
be on the side of caution. He offered that instead of five
years for felony it could have ten or twenty, but he was
attempting to reach a reasonable compromise and the same goes
with a misdemeanor as it could have been any number of years and
three years was chosen as reasonable for controlled substances
only, not for any other misdemeanors.
2:30:33 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Keller and Lynn
voted in favor of Amendment 1. Representatives Gruenberg,
Foster, Millett, Claman, and LeDoux, voted against it.
Therefore, Amendment 1 failed to pass by a vote of 2-5.
2:31:07 PM
CHAIR LEDOUX quiered whether this bill gives the board the
authority to create whatever license or license type it deems
necessary in order to effectively regulate the industry.
MS. FRANKLIN advised that it does.
2:31:29 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG questioned whether the Marijuana
Control Board will have the authority to create crimes.
MS. FRANKLIN responded "No," that by regulation the board will
not be creating crimes, but if through regulation if criminal
activity is identified there can be some penalty work performed
by regulation. In terms of creating offenses and putting an
individual into jail the answer is no, as obviously AS 17.38
gives whichever regulatory board that has authority over this
substance the ability to create civil penalty fines relating to
violation of the rules created by the board, she explained.
2:32:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG paraphrased Ms. Franklin's previous
statement that the board may be able to do something with
respect to criminal penalties.
MS. FRANKLIN replied that the statement is based on a discussion
pre-session with the board's attorneys in terms of how far the
regulations might go if no amendments to AS 17.38 occurred. She
said she would have to refresh her memory on that before putting
it on the record. Generally speaking, she offered, with regard
to Title 4, the regulations clarify statutes and she knows the
board cannot create crimes.
2:33:43 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG requested that a written follow-up
answer to his question be delivered to the committee and in that
manner he could determine if there is a problem.
MS. FRANKLIN responded that she is willing to prepare a written
follow-up.
2:34:37 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER moved to report CSHB 123 out of committee
with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal
notes. There being no objection, CSHB 123(JUD) was reported
from the House Judiciary Standing Committee.
2:34:56 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 2:34 to 2:39 p.m.
HJR 14-CALL FOR US COUNTERMAND CONVENTION
HCR 4-US COUNTERMAND CONVENTION DELEGATES
2:39:21 PM
CHAIR LEDOUX announced that the next order of business would be
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 14, Making application to the United
States Congress to call a convention of the states to propose a
countermand amendment to the Constitution of the United States
as provided under art. V, Constitution of the United States; and
urging the legislatures of the other 49 states to make the same
application, and HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 4, Relating to
the duties of delegates selected by the legislature to attend a
convention of the states called under art. V, Constitution of
the United States, to consider a countermand amendment to the
Constitution of the United States; establishing as a joint
committee of the legislature the Delegate Credential Committee
and relating to the duties of the committee; providing for an
oath for delegates and alternates to a countermand amendment
convention; providing for a chair and assistant chair of the
state's countermand amendment delegation; providing for the
duties of the chair and assistant chair; providing instructions
for the selection of a convention president; and providing
specific language for the countermand amendment on which the
state's convention delegates are authorized by the legislature
to vote to approve.
2:39:31 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SHELLY HUGHES, Alaska State Legislature, said she
will present HJR 14, and HCR 4, in tandem. She then referred to
Article V, of the United States Constitution, which read:
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall
deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this
Constitution, or, on the application of the
legislatures of two thirds of the several states,
shall call a convention for proposing amendments,
which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents
and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when
ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the
several states, or by conventions in three fourths
thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification
may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no
amendment which may be made prior to the year one
thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner
affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth
section of the first article; and that no state,
without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal
suffrage in the Senate.
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES described the resolutions as an Article V
effort and stated that the word "countermand" means veto. She
advised this would give state legislatures veto power over
certain decisions being decided upon in Washington, D.C., if a
certain number of states agree. She pointed out that HJR 14 is
the call to the Congress, and HCR 4 gives the delegates
instructions and contains the actual language that would be
added at the bottom of the Constitution, which would be Article
XXVIII if it were to be amended. She explained that calling a
convention requires two-thirds of the states (34 states), to
ratify an amendment it takes three-fourths of the states (38
states). She remarked that within this countermand amendment
there is a mechanism to give the states veto power over federal
decisions, and the amendment itself takes three-fifths of the
states (30 states) to veto a federal decision. She pointed to
the problems Alaska has with federal overreach and that she has
been surprised with how often on the House floor a resolution is
passed with the theme of overreach. She described those as
important statement made, but questioned whether it moved the
needle to restore the balance of power that Alaskans request be
restored. She stated these resolutions are an actionable step
in a long Article V process as other states would have to come
on board in order to do this. She described it as a necessary
step and is important for Alaska to take in that the founders
put it in the Constitution at the time. She offered that when
this nation was formed the states initially came together and
formed the Articles of Confederation. As it turns out, she
explained, the states retained too much power and within the
U.S. Constitution is the idea of a proper balance between state
and federal government. Issues occurred over the decades and
centuries, including the power to tax and once the federal
government held the purse strings it gained a lot of power. She
offered that the resolutions are not partisan as they are about
restoring the power between the state and federal government.
She noted there has been concern that the U.S. Constitution is a
sacred document so there has been apprehension about opening it
up and having a convention. She related that this is not a
constitution convention as it is a single amendment convention
and sideboards would prevent it from being any other topic so
the Constitution would not be unraveled.
2:47:10 PM
STEWART CRUGER, Staff, Representative Shelley Hughes, Alaska
State Legislature, said HJR 14 is the State of Alaska's call on
Congress for an amendment convention for the sole purpose of
sending the countermand amendment back to the states for
ratification as is written in the first Resolved. The second
Resolve states that the U.S. Congress will convene a convention
within 60 days after the day it receives the 34th call for that
convention from state legislatures. The third Resolve states
that this is a continuing application and it will remain with
Congress until the 34th application is received. The fourth
Resolve encourages legislatures of the other 49 states to pass a
similar resolution. With regard to HCR 4, Resolved one
authorizes the legislature to appoint and summon delegates for
the amendment convention. Resolved two gives the legislature
authority to decide the qualifications and total number of
delegates to send to the convention. Resolved three gives the
legislature the ability to add or remove delegates. Resolved
four provides parameters and instructions for the state's
delegates at the convention and prohibits delegates from voting
for any other amendment outside the countermand amendment at the
convention. Resolved five reserves the countermand amendment as
the only amendment for consideration for ratification by the
legislatures. Resolved six states that upon a call for a
convention by 34 states this resolved allows for establishing of
the delegate credential committee within the Alaska Legislature
with duties listed in Section (A) later in this document.
Specifically, the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall
appoint three members from the House, one being a minority
caucus member. The President of the Senate shall appoint three
members of the Senate, one being a minority member.
2:49:51 PM
MR. CRUGER pointed out that Resolved seven provides for the
replacement procedure for members of the delegate credential
committee. Resolved eight allows for a selection of co-chairs
of the delegate credential committee, one being from the House
and one from the Senate. Resolved nine establishes when the
delegate credential committee can meet. Resolved ten
acknowledges that the delegate credential committee will
continue until the first day of the thirtieth Alaska State
Legislature and also requests that it be reevaluated by
subsequent legislatures. Resolved eleven requests that the
delegate credential committee be considered for reestablishment
during the thirtieth Alaska State Legislature. Resolved twelve
provides for removal and replacement procedure for members of
the credential committee in that members are removed or replaced
by the presiding officer that appointed them. Resolved thirteen
provides for the duties of the delegate credential committee.
He advised that this is a majority vote on decisions, official
facilitator for the legislature, appointment of delegates,
provide a committee report on selected delegates, appoint a
chair and assistant chair of the delegation, properly vet and
confirm delegates, issue convention passes to delegates, notify
legislature of financial needs of the convention, administer
oaths to the delegates, alternates, chair, and assistant chair,
monitor activities of Alaska's delegation, submit quarterly
reports to the legislature on events, progress and
recommendations for the convention, and authority to recommend
removal of a delegate or alternate for approval by the
legislature. Resolved thirteen, Section B, provides for the
duties of the chair of Alaska's state delegation and the
president of the convention. He offered that the chair is
responsible for communicating with other state delegations to
open convention for business, identifying other legislatures
that have approved the delegate resolution, build consensus with
at least 26 state delegations to require that each state
delegation at the convention has only one vote, require a simple
majority vote at all roll calls, nominate convention officials,
require a quorum of 26 states to conduct business, build a
consensus of at least 26 states to support sending the
countermand amendment for ratification, work to conclude the
convention in 21 days or no longer than 180 days, nominate a
candidate for convention president from Alaska's delegation or
work to elect a president from delegate resolution state.
Resolve thirteen, Section B, Subsection J, under duties of the
Alaska delegation chair include supporting the following duties
of the convention president: securing a vote for this delegate
resolution to be the rules of order at the convention, focus on
the purpose of sending the countermand for ratification by the
states, request security measures as needed, oversee installment
of officers at the convention, establish convention agenda,
provide equal time for floor discussion for all states, prohibit
introduction of any other subject other than the countermand
amendment, call for a vote for sending countermand amendment to
the states, report to 50 state legislatures ...
2:53:38 PM
CHAIR LEDOUX asked Mr. Cruger to point out the highlights as
opposed to simply reading from the resolution.
MR. CRUGER stated that the above addresses the duties of the
president of the entire convention. Resolved thirteen, Section
C addresses the duties and responsibilities of the convention
delegates. Resolved thirteen, Section D addresses the duties
and responsibilities of delegate alternates. Resolved thirteen,
Section E provides the text of the countermand amendment. He
advised that Mike Schechter, from the Department of Law Charles
Kaeprowiez, from Citizens Initiatives, on line for questions.
CHAIR LEDOUX opened public testimony
2:55:09 PM
CHARLES KACPROWICZ, Executive Director, Citizen Initiatives and
Countermand Amendment, said he has worked on amendments for the
U. S. Constitution either through Congress or state
legislatures, under Article V, for over 40 years. The
difference he proposes is the idea that state legislatures,
under Article V, are sovereign and are the final law in all
constitutional matters. He highlighted that [America] is a
constitutional republic which is why there is a constitution to
protect that. The U.S. Constitution, Article IV, Section 4,
guarantees every state a republican form of government which
means every state has one vote, regardless of the population
which goes into the convention as well. He highlighted that the
biggest problem existing during the constitution convention and
before deliberations started, was sovereignty. George Witt,
delegate, notable attorney, professor and distinguished
gentleman at the time, headed up a committee and put eight rules
together. He described an important rule being the
recommendation that each state has an equal vote, the convention
agreed and went forward as a republican form of convention. He
stated that this issue has to be settled at every Article V
Convention, and noted that currently there could be 534
politically charged delegates. He pointed out that the states
will probably be allotted the same number of representatives the
states have in Congress. He said the point to address here is
to ascertain that sovereignty is retained by state legislatures
as sovereignty trumps legal precedent, convention experience,
historical events, and is the one thing the legislatures must
not advocate as if they do, they will not get it back. He
stated that every Article V Convention has to be protected so
rather than letting the 534 delegates decide the matter, the
state legislatures are the deliberative body in deciding matters
related to the states including how to use Article V. He
related that as the deliberative body, the legislature
determines what these delegates do at the convention as they are
ambassadors and not free agents. As a result, he remarked, the
outcome of that convention will be successful and will be
completed in approximately seven days.
3:01:03 PM
MR. KACPROWICZ advised that the amendment itself will allow the
State of Alaska to address some of the most critical issues it
has to currently deal with. He pointed out that Nevada has
approximately 82 percent of its land controlled by the federal
government and Alaska has approximately 67 percent. He reminded
the committee Alaska recently received an Executive Order
locking up more land and preventing Alaska from using the land
for whatever purposes it chooses. The Countermand Amendment can
address that issue as there are 38 energy producing states and
only 30 Countermand Amendments are necessary. Should Alaska
decide to countermand a particular EPA, or BLM ruling, it would
send it to the appropriate federal agencies together with an
invitation to the other 49 states inviting them to countermand
the same law. He opined that Alaska will more than likely get
the 30 states necessary just on the issue of energy. As a
result, it will put the state legislatures in a respected role
by the federal government, he explained.
3:02:42 PM
CHAIR LEDOUX closed public testimony after ascertaining no one
further wished to testify.
3:03:03 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN said the idea of trying to make it the
framework in which states can take up certain acts of Congress
may have some validity, but advised that this proposal, unless
it was modified, probably goes too far. For example, page 11,
on CSHCR 4, the provisions allowing a state's vote to overturn a
judicial decision as well as the U.S. Senate action approving a
treaty are both going farther than is appropriate in terms of a
state's role in America's constitutional democracy. He
described it as a positive idea that needs refining before it is
ready for prime time.
3:04:09 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER stated that generally that this is a good
effort and there are many Article V's out there with low risk to
the Alaska State Legislature. He referred to the Article V
effort passed last year on the balanced budget amendment that 4
states have now joined and that the effort takes time. He
explained that he has been involved with the Assembly of State
Legislators which is a national group of legislators working on
approximately the same thing as the countermand process, but the
effort there is to attempt to come up with the rules and agenda
for the first convention. He pointed out that there are several
Article V's out there, and they all help Alaska because they are
raising awareness that states have the option of using Article
V, which was intended for states to use.
3:05:42 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER moved to report CSHJR 14(STA) out of
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying
fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSHJR 14(STA) moved out
of the House Judiciary Standing Committee.
3:05:59 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 3:05 to 3:08 p.m.
3:08:45 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER moved to report CSHCR 4 out of committee
with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal
notes. There being no objection, CSHCR 4 moved out of the House
Judiciary Standing Committee.
3:09:17 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Judiciary Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 3:09 p.m.